[Coral Mike 59]

Originally Posted by vic33004

thx mike, what time did you count them?

The pics I took just before counting (see the one I attached, below) are timestamped 2:56-2:58 pm

[zinfull]

To Coral Mike 59, Before you send us a personal e mail calling my wife and I four letter words about your missing dock line. Please let me inform you of some facts.
You tied up next to us with small walmart fenders and scratched our boat, did I say anything, no I just got my proper size fenders and delt with it keeping the festive atmosphere.
Further when you left we were not even aboard our boat, I was on Starfish, since I was not drinking during the day I was properly aware of my whereabouts. I saw you leave and get tangled in my anchor line, but by the time I got to my boat you were gone and underway.
My wife and I sailed out big boat here from California so we have serious experience with boating that most do not. Had you got a hold of me I would have properly asisted you in departing. As to whom did not throw you a dock line, from what I could see you were clearly out of control of your boat while tangled in the anchor line and could have created more damage to everyone.
I'm sorry to here about your dock line but I honestly do not have any information about it.

Bill and Gia

[Coral Mike 59]

Dear Bill,

With all due respect, please allow me to correct your reply and "facts".

1) I am sorry that you took offense at my posting, as it was not directed at you or Gia. (I did not send "a personal email to you calling you four letter words".) I enjoyed meeting you and your wife Gia earlier in the afternoon. If I had had a problem with you, I would have contacted you personally.

I was not referring to you with my "fingerprick" comment. You were not the individual who refused to toss my line back to me. It was some drunkard who did not understand the damage our two vessels were beginning to sustain, and took a vigilante attitude that he was going to "punish" me for trying to free our boats from an unsafe situation. (It's my take that you would have far too much class for a stunt like that. You were not even on your boat at that time.) I do not know the name of the drunk who kept my line, but I would recognize him, and will, should we cross paths again.

2) Your statement that I scratched your boat upon initially rafting is simply false. We brought the boats together very slowly while YOU helped direct the tie-up, and all four fenders were in place before the boats were tied. If you sustained any scratches, please read point #4 below as to how they must have occurred, later in the afternoon.

3) My fenders are 6.5" x 22" Taylormade Supergard Fenders, which are the appropriate size for my 27' foot boat. At $43 each, they are hardly "small Walmart" fenders. They were properly inflated, as I had pumped them the outing before, however they were no match for the torque of some 30+ non-anchored boats to the west of me in a current, causing absurd strain levels on the cleats, lines and fenders. (In fact, at one point earlier in the afternoon, YOU threatened ME that you were going to release my boat unless the boats to the west of me dropped anchors. A few of them did, however since many boaters do not understand anchor scope, most of them were dragging without holding.)

4) While your fenders are "proper sized", if you had checked them at 5 pm when I did, you would have seen that your aft fender had popped clear of our boats due to the torque of the raft, such that my aft fender was the only fender between our two aft quarters and was not enough to keep our boats from rubbing because of the crushing torque. THAT IS WHY I BROKE OUT! NO MATTER HOW HARD I PUSHED, I COULD NOT SEPARATE OUR BOATS AGAINST THE TORQUE OF THE CURRENT, IN ORDER TO REPOSITION YOUR AFT FENDER IN BETWEEN OUR BOATS. MY AFT FENDER WAS COMPRESSED BEYOND UTILITY BY THE CRUSHING TORQUE, AND I COULD SEE THAT OUR BOATS WERE RUBBING FIBERGLASS TO FIBERGLASS. I DE-RAFTED TO AVOID FURTHER DAMAGE TO OUR BOATS.

5) In a raft-up of 40+ boats, to expect me to know of your whereabouts or to find you to assist with de-rafting is absurd. Time was of the essence and I had no clue where you were, but I knew that our boats were going to be damaged further if I didn't get out of there quickly. You've said that you had gone too far away from your boat to return to it in time to assist, when you saw that I was attempting to de-raft. One of my passengers was 6 boats away when I started to de-raft, but made it back to my boat in time to board.

6) At no time did I tangle in your anchor line, or anyone else's. In fact, it was because of your anchor line that I could not reverse direction to correct the wind catching and pushing my bow to the west as I inched forward of the raft. (Normally, you back out of a raft, so that the surrounding boats can cross lines over your bow and pull the raft together. Backing out can also be accomplished with higher steering accuracy than pulling forward, ESPECIALLY in wind. However due to the torque and the proximity of smaller boats tied behind us, there was simply no way that I could back out, and HAD to pull forward.) Since the "hands" on the surrounding boats could not quickly free the lines due to the torque of the raft, the 10 mph wind took my bow to the west as soon as I was freed from the raft. I could not correct this by reversing, because your anchor line was behind me and I did not want to slice it or foul my props. To say I was "out of control of my boat" is not accurate. I was at idle speed pulling forward, and completely cut to neutral as soon as the wind took my bow to the west.

I'm sorry that this has become an issue between us, as neither of us were at fault for the failures that occured. I certainly did not hold you responsible, and I'm kind of surprised that you've attacked my post with anger and frankly, with emotion and inaccuracy. I guess this is because you thought I was attacking you with my comment, which is not true. I hope we get the chance to make amends in person, sometime.

Regards,

[IslandTime]

Fingerprick? De-raft? You guys sure are providing some good midweek comedy.

The truth is that when that many boats come together, all hell is usually gonna break loose. There were so many dangerous and unsafe conditions taking place out there that it's amazing someone was not seriously injured. Unfortunately, most inexperienced boaters carry huge egos on board and won't listen when someone offers them some safety advice. Ten boats in a row without a single anchor is ridiculous, and too many boaters think that it's ok to pull up and simply drop your anchor straight down. It is imperative that when you see boat after boat pulling up and not dropping a hook that you ask them to do so. I have untied boats who refused to do so and told them to go start their own raft-up elsewhere. Regardless, things could have been worse out there. Where are the bikini photos???

[Asureyes]

The East end of the raft was comprized of larger boats under the control of experienced skippers and nearly every boat had a hook down. There were several of us concerned about the west end of the raft as they began to swing off to the south. It quickly appeared as if we would have to cut them away as there would be no way to untie a cleat with the strain. If they were cut away, there probably wasn't a sober one among them to get hooks down. It could have become very very messy.

Vic on Never Satisfied and Bill off Zinfull acted fast and took a dingy out to pull the west end of the raft back to the north and got them to set some hooks. Their quick action saved the day I'm sure.

Big WTG to Vic.

While new to this group, my sea time is substaintial. From that experience I can strongly suggest that rafts that are antispated to be of such size have an official "Raft-Master" with dingy and power Megaphone to direct skippers. Big boats should have every other boat with a hook out, smaller "Opens" every fourth if the anchors are of proper size. If undersized anchors are observed then every second boat. The Raft Master can assist in setting anchors of the inexperienced operators who are clueless as to anchoring techiques.

I realize that everyone wants to be at the party, but there is some basic organization that seems to be needed for the safety of the rafted flotilla.

Think about it.

[Coral Mike 59]

You are absolutely correct, Asureyes. (Great to finally meet you, by the way.)

It was comforting to see the remedial anchoring effort. However, the problem with the west-end hooks that were set after rafting (besides that there weren't enough of them) is that some of them were not set far out enough, so they were dragging. (In some cases, there were already other boats anchored in the way of where the anchors should have been dropped.)

Even when they were dropped far enough out to set properly, by the time an anchor sets, the boat drops back 2-10 feet from where the anchor is dropped. Multiply this effect by 40 boats tightly tied at the cleats in a strong current, and you had ineffective anchoring at the west end. It was scary to see the strain being applied to my fenders, lines and cleats, as I was in the middle of the raft, just to the west of the large, properly anchored boats.

It is important that boats joining a raft-up set hooks BEFORE floating back to tie-in, and set them FAR-FORWARD. I watched Stan do EXACTLY that with the catamaran. (Mark of a skilled captain.) It was a beautiful (and educational) thing to watch.

P.S. I nominate Boatingal to be the next Raft-Master. She would look cute in a dinghy, with a megaphone, and maybe wearing a beret, directing the skippers! LOL

[Boatingal]

Originally Posted by Coral Mike 59

P.S. I nominate Boatingal to be the next Raft-Master. She would look cute in a dinghy, with a megaphone, and maybe wearing a beret, directing the skippers! LOL

VEry Funny CoralMike 59. Raft-Master without a boat, built in megaphone, AND has the juice!

Thanks for the raft-master vote of confidence.